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@ Tuesday, 07. Jul, 2009 – 08:51:33
Did you know that if you are lucky enough to own a house and a car you are, according to some sources, in the top 4% of the richest people in the world?
Yet as we in the Western world become more and more affluent our tendency towards depression increases.
Is it fast becoming the "disease" of a spoilt culture?
DominicGee
stmss
Laughing over the ladies who lunch being put to the plough 
Maslow's model is quite static isn't it in that once you have been actualized you are supposed to have reached satiation point?
It was also interesting what you said about money-why aren't they spreading it around to share the joy (and I don't mean charity,just think of the economy if they went out regularly,smoked,drank,ate & tipped generously)rather than self obsess?
tylluanpenry
Yes and no. Depends how you define depression. People use the word far too freely, I think, without realising what it really means.
To say 'I feel blue/depressed/down' is one thing. Most people feel like that at some time or another.
To say 'I have depression' is another. Depression is a horrible, crippling illness that makes you unable to function.
And please don't think that only the affluent get it. I remember researching some 19th century newspapers down in Somerset many years ago and was struck by the number of suicides there were then, often amongst farm labourers (who were certainly well aquainted with ploughs in those days One even threw himself on his pitchfork....
So.... no, on the whole I don't think depression is more of a problem in the affluent world. Maybe it manifests differently, maybe people are more willing to talk about it because much of the stigma has gone (or is going)... and maybe some people use the word without really thinking what it means.
stmss
Thinking of that poor man on his pitchfork. You don't think of people committing suicide in earlier times because of the awful shame of going to hell/not being buried in hallowed ground(remember Tess' child in Tess of the D'Urbervilles).
Thinking of what you wrote maybe the more affluent of us have the time and vocabulary to voice it.
tylluanpenry
Suicide was actually pretty prevalent years ago. And I've heard of more than one using a pitchfork.
Another mistake we often make is that while wealth may not bring happiness, poverty can certainly bring its share of misery.
Poor or rich the real sickness comes from not being in tuned to the universe. We refuse to see that there are spiritual laws that govern our well being just as there are physical laws. It might be said the riches give more opportunity to deviate from the life style we should be living and therefore feel the effects greater.
Spiritual heath comes from coming into full agreement with the Creator of the Universe and living according to the design. Then rich or poor the fulfillment is satisfactory and depression has no place in out hearts
stmss
Yes JL, I really liked what you said about being in contact with the spiritual laws. So often,people sneer at the very idea of such a notion and place all the emphasis on physical wellbeing.
jackiblogg
I think people become 'depressed' when they feel loss of power. Power over their own lives! This to my mind has little to do with wealth! The Buddha taught unhappiness was linked to 'desire' Contentment certainly allows us to go through live easier. However excitement laughter and anticipation are the ingredients which add the spice which makes life delicious! We can all do our bit to help the depressed [the worst pain] by helping re-empowering those who have 'temporally' lost the knack of doing it for themselves. Helping by giving a 'push start' but letting them 'steer and drive'
stmss
Thank you for what you said about Buddha - the paradox there being that detachment is the desired state -in detachment we see the nature of things as they really are and get a sense of perspective.
I also like your comments on giving back the power to the depressed; the only problem being that for most depressives they feel as if the depressive state is something that overwhelms them, not something that they control.
jackiblogg
thanks, I dont think I made myself as clear as I could have. When one is depressed there is a sense of being overwhelmed and not being in control. What I meant though was that the trigger for depression is often a loss of control over events in one's life or a feeling of loss of power. The kneejerk reaction of most sympathisers is to want to 'solve' the problem or to offer the shoulder to cry on. When the depression moves on from being a reaction to events to a deep endoginous[clinical] depression which starts to affect a person physically, pescription drugs may be needed. However even at this stage allowing a person to work out how and why they feel so bad and supporting THEIR decisions may help them regain their power and self esteem.
stmss
I'm probably causing the confusion 
You're right that people do have the power & should be empowered but for a lot of people we miss that critical intervention point.
I have often noticed that the rich seem wrapped up in their wealth while the poor seek God's provision. Within Christianity there is an ongoing debate over health and wealth. Does God desire for every Christian to be rich and completely without sickness? If so, how can the poor be with us always and cancer continues to take the lives of the righteous?
I own my home, have two cars that are paid for, and both my wife and I have earned degrees. I own a business that I run out of my home, and my wife is a mid-level manager with her company. By world standards we are rich. But we are not. We have what is takes to provide for our family and as we have means we give to help those who do not have as much as us. We take this approach because we believe that all we have belongs to God. We are but stewards of God's abundant blessings.
Although I have been bless with abundance, I am in no way depressed. I am optimistic, because I know that God uses me to bless others. I love to see smiles on the faces of people whom I am privileged to help, knowing that my love for them will help them find health and wealth for their own lives. The Bible teaches that joy is eternal when we live our lives for God. I give because all I have belongs to my Lord and giving to whom He says give brings me eternal joy. I am not dependent upon my wealth to bring me happiness. That would be foolishness.
tylluanpenry
I think you hit the nail on the head there. 'I am not dependent upon my wealth to bring me happiness.' Those who are dependent upon wealth for happiness, or who expect it to bring them happiness are really barking up the wrong tree.
Exactly!
stmss
I felt how blessed you were when you described seeing your daughter for the first time in earliest memory post.
We have such riches if only we know how to open our eyes to the miracles that surround us.
miraclebahai
A veritable smorgasbord of beneficial thoughts (all the above)!
Lest we should fall prey to pitchfork, or remain consigned to the plough, I think it wise to note, as have the above, that the things of this world do not bring real happiness.
Our souls need nourishment of a higher order. Without it, depression is bound to ensue. Hence, those who place too much value on material success are bound to find themselves dissatisfied.
BLessings and light to those who are truly in need of that which is most valuable: a grateful, content and loving heart. - O
stmss
You are absolutely right,contentment is the real key. I hear many cry out for the peace of mind that allows them to sleep and dream and live.
Neither is affluence good or bad by itself,nor is poverty.
Each has its unique environment, which is neither necessarily a grave lack of the beauty and natural richness of life on the poverty side, nor is it true that the heavens have comedown to us on the extremely affluent side..
on the poverty side,Yes lack of food and shelter and also the total denial of the basic self respect that usually associates with it ,like in extreme cases, gets on the nerves.Apart from that its not as ugly as we might believe.
On the poverty side, based on the nature of the environment itself, there is room to get depressed, imagining that they are lacking too much, or you can face up and be more alert and wise about how you conduct yourself.
On the affluent side there is room for a lot of haste and also depression when you realize, it was not a perfect heaven,as you imagined it for long. Which is not the case for the poor, they have their own set of imagination for depression. And affluence also gives you the choice to look at the limitations of wealth and be alert and wise, just like the poor man leading
his practical life.
I guess there is room for both depression and ecstasy everywhere. But the key is lurking not on the outside,
but to a larger extent within the mind. And this last line, i would like to sound impractical....i love facts.."The key lurks completely within" ...Hmmm.
and even i'm fed up with the same old stuff..but can't help it, maybe facts can't change with time, for anybody.
Huh! creativity they say is new, but there's nothing new about the creator, he's creating from day 0..only his creations are weird and new..lol. Fine i give a 2.5/5. Neither good nor bad. Dad knows how to balance it out,i guess. But he's selfish, he lurks where depression can't touch him....and monitors with aloofness...that's not fair, but he left the choice to me and he does this with ruthless love...so i have to shut up.
stmss
I agree with you totally about the states of poverty and affluence.
I think my post was ultimately about the obsession on self and the state of depression that may (or may not)accompany it.
To seek a fixed point beyond the horizon of self is often a good thing.
Its not just about the obsession of self, Any obsession leads to depression, if you are trying to hold on to it and if its not holding you, usually when you are expecting and waiting for some results in the future, loosing the ability to drink the juice that it is constantly offering, provided we are open and sensitive to it.
I don't see why depression so easily accompanies a passion, when it lures you, gravitates you, It may accompany only if it was forced. Or maybe something else like other conditions that doesn't comply or seem opposed to this pattern may cause depression. But that's the way the sensory and thought perceptions go, you look at a point, you'll miss the rest of the points.
Never mind,fortunately its all only a trick of imagination.
--
"To seek a fixed point beyond the horizon of self is a good thing"
Who said there is a horizon to the self ?
I never saw it.
Let alone a fixed point beyond it.
What do you mean by the self, anyway.
stmss
Please join the group & post - the last question deserves a wider audience
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I think when you're wealthy you have more time to be introspective (or even self-concerned). I doubt very much if there is the myriad of mental 'disorders' that you can be diagnosed with in this country in the poorer countries of the world. They've got more pressing things to worry about. Look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
(http://deptorg.knox.edu/engdept/commonroom/Volume_Eleven/number_two/Wedel/maslow.gif). In theory, you graduate to each one after one has been achieved.
Money doesn't eliminate problems, it just gives you a raft of new ones.
Speaking to my girlfriend the other day, she mentioned something like this - she works for a rich lady who has many rich peers. The rate of hypochondria among these (most often) women is very high, because they have nothing else to worry about except their health. They obssess over their cholesterol levels, their skin condition and vitamin intake. Put them in a field with a plough somewhere and I am sure these concerns will evaporate.