PRAYER AND TO WHOM?

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PRAYER AND TO WHOM?

by paulinemom @ Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 – 14:12:12

Ok there has been a bit of a 'glitch' on this post....

But I am trying to resurrect it in best it's original form.

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Hi all.....

The way this World is going I despair......

Not often I pass on mail such as I am forwarding...and especially as I am not a Christian as hold Pagan belief.

I feel it is disgusting the way Prayer is being omitted from life.....I know we live in a multi cultural World but GOD to whichever faith, by whatever name is still the Higher (outside ourselves) Being.

The LORD'S PRAYRER.... Our father who is in Heaven.......surely this can be adapted to cover ALL FAITH....like the words are true just change the name?

I had a mail through from a friend in America and she informed me that......

Did you know that the ACLU has filed a suit to have all military cross-shaped headstones removed and another suit to end prayer from the military completely? They're making great progress. The Navy Chaplains can no longer mention Jesus' name in prayer thanks to the wretched ACLU and our new administration.

I was told that this is a hoax but it raises important points about religious freedom and observance and other people's rights to avoid it.

So what do you think?

P xxx
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79 Comments to PRAYER AND TO WHOM?

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- stmss
- http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 14:35:03
ACLU-American Civil Liberties Union-are involved in some legal cases and one of them is about a cross shaped memorial. The email may be alluding to that.
- - paulinemom
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:25:48
  I have to investigate further
  
  I feel much is about the USA not wishing to use prayer of 'demoninational' don't know.
  
  P xx
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- stmss
- http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 14:40:53
I have just looked at the prayer one-apparently ACLU supported some sailors to stop them having to take part in lunch meal time prayers.
- Reply to comment
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- stmss
- http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:00:16
Sorry Pauline, I was just going to reply to a comment and when I came back it wasn't there!

Gremlins a go-go

This email that your friend sent you may have exaggerated the story to get a response but obviously people feel strongly that the role of prayer and religious symbolism are being demoted in today's society (see Tylluanpenry's Blessings) post.

I thought about religion in schools when I read your post.
- - paulinemom
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:09:32
  Oh religion in schools goes way back with me when it was being dealt with sensibly....I reiterate...SENSIBLY!!!!
  
  I have respomded to Tully's post.
  
  Not deleted aything since the last one which I reinstated as you asked.
  
  Think I am near caught up....
  
  P xx
  - - stmss
    - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
    - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:17:58
    What do mean about sensibly?
    
    Assembly time (a time to pray and sing) has been wiped out of most schools.
    - - paulinemom
      - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:21:20
      Yes...that is true....and a shame as it was dwalt with sensibly.
      
      P xx
      - ChurchwithoutWalls
        
        http://churchwithoutwalls.blog.co.uk
        
        Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 16:50:33
        
        assembly has been demolished but not replaced with anything constructive.my mate teaches music in school but no one wants to sing any more.the songs that brought us together have been forgotten
        
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        stmss
        
        http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
        
        Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 17:36:04
        
        How can you sound nostalgic when you're only 29?
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:20:53
        
        No but he has a point.
        P xx
        
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    - - WildWitch
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:01:39
      Assembly time in my day was prayer and hymns, for my children when we were back home assembly time was a story relating to morals with no mention of faith of any kind. A song or two might have been sang, usualy along the lines of coming together, being friends, songs about everyday life issues, relationships etc. There would be no prayer but quiet time offered to sit and think for about 2 minutes, again no faith or god mentioned
      
      Thats how i feel it should be. We should not force religion upon our children.
      
      Here in Wales i have removed my children from assembly as it is very much how it was when i was a child, prayer, hymns and a bible story. I do not want my children to be encouraged to pray to a God they are unfamiliar with or to sing praises of.
      
      I find it difficult to comment on the military though. Considering they go to war often in the name of religion whichever one it is. Maybe it should be down to the family to say if prayers, hymns or crosses should be used at the funeral of a soldier or not, in the hope they will respect his or her wishes on the subject.
      - paulinemom
        
        Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:06:51
        
        Much as I am older than you prayer (The Lord's Prayer) was offered in assembly but the hymns were non offensive to any race...like ALL THINGS BRIGHT AND BEAUTIFUL...
        
        Jewish students took assembly seperate.... We did not have all the today's multicultural society.
        
        There is a school round the corner to me that I wanted to send Becci to....a private school and she got a 'bursery' but change of Government in UK just prior to her starting took that away.
        
        Their assemblies consisted of the SCHOOL SONG....and a short prayer (non demonical) to give thanks for the day and guidance through it.
        
        P xx
        
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        WildWitch
        
        Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 17:27:14
        
        "The lord god made them all"
        
        No he didnt, science has proven that as well.
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 17:28:47
        
        Yes....
        
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        safriz
        
        http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
        
        Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 18:37:31
        
        WW..I wonder what diety you beleive in,as a wicca yourself?
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:20:37
        
        That is a slightly difficult question to answer in a short comment.
        
        Wicca have varying modes of thought..
        
        The God, The Goddess.....some believe The All" or "The One." The Goddess and God are viewed as the female and male aspects of this single deity.
        
        I myself believe in the God and Goddess, the Sun, the Moon and all things associated with the Earth..
        
        Halloween (SAMHAIN) is our year end....
        
        For a better insight.....go to
        
        http://aradiamoonshadow.tripod.com/festivals.html
        
        and learn a little more.
        
        P xx
        
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        safriz
        
        http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:27:39
        
        I know this much about paganism that there may be many gods and or goddeses for different purposes.Hinduism is similar,and to me a form of paganism,as they too have many gods and goddeses.Some beleive in one,others beleive in few,and some beleive in all.
        I asked the same question to tully and i was told that she beleives in "The Green Man".I understand that although you and her both are wicca,but because paganism has many dieties,different wiccas can beleive in different dieties.
        But the thing i find extremely interesting is that there is a "Green man" mentione in The Quraan.He too has everything to do with nature and is immortal until the Doomsday.In Arabic he is called Al-Khidr,and he was involved in the training of Moses.Still many Muslims claim to have been trained by him Spiritually.
        I was wondering if the Pagan green man and the Quranic green man are the same? Hence the question about your Diety.
        I should have asked Tully,but she is not very active on here lately,presumably due to the book she is writing and the witchfest activities.
        But this is an open Question,anybody may answer,as the Green man mentioned in the Quraan is also mentioned in Hadith,and is said to have been living and guiding people long before the advent of Islam.
        There is a sayng among Sufi muslims "If you want to meet Khidr(The green man),look for him on the banks of rivers".
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Wednesday, 04. Nov, 2009 @ 15:50:30
        
        The Green Man features much within my own faith as he is part of the Beltane Festival in May.
        
        Some people have named him Jack of the Green (Robin Hood)
        
        But....
        
        Beltane is a time for planting and sowing of seeds -- again, the fertility theme appears. The buds and flowers of early May bring to mind the endless cycle of birth, growth, death and rebirth that we see in the earth. Certain trees are associated with May Day, such as the Ash, Oak and Hawthorn.
        
        P xx
        
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        safriz
        
        http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:49:14
        
        I read the definition of SAMHAIN on the weblink you posted here.I wish you a happy SAMHAIN.
        The definition of SAMHAIN is very interesting "It is a time for looking back on the past year, and to reflect on a part of our lives that we cannot control, death. It is a time to honor the dead".
        Very interesting for me as i do something simillar every year on a particular Lunar night.Its part of Islamic faith.Its called Shab-e-Baraat or the night of salvation.
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:28:55
        
        Safriz...
        I am pleased you read the link....I just found quickly as was to long for me to write and type.
        
        I am well aware of Shab-e-Baraat...
        
        I believe that on the Night of Shab-e- Baraat Allah writes the destinies of all men for the coming year by taking in to account the deeds committed by them in the past. The festivities are celebrated on the 14th of Shabaan which is the 8th month of Muslim calendar. Shab-e-Barat happens to be 15 days before beginning of Ramazan. Shab-e-Baraat means the night of forgiveness of Day of Atonement. People pray to God. Just in preparation to welcome the Holy Month of Ramazan. Houses, streets, religious buildings and mosques are illuminated by candles or electric bulbs. Sweets are distributed among the poor and the friends and relatives.
        
        It bears much resemblance to Halloween.
        
        P xx
        
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        WildWitch
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 14:01:41
        
        Im not Wiccan safriz, i follow the more traditional Pagan pathway rather than Wiccan.
        
        I do like the Gaia theory, and i guess you could say worship nature, the Earth, our Mother Earth, though i do not tend to have a particular diety that i follow.
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Wednesday, 04. Nov, 2009 @ 14:50:51
        
        WildWitch...I am the same as you....I have a mixed faith following the Pagan ways.
        
        P xx
        
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- sarangijibt
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:11:13
Prayer includes worship, thanks and wishing or even more.Components of a prayer shouldn't be superficial or for pitty things.In my opinion it is a kind of contacting one's God. Therefore it is a personal thing.

Like with blessings a general prayer is not good. It cannot have the necessary personal character. It degenerates into hollow sentences. Therefore prayers for/by soldiers before the meal are worthless in my opinion. More so if they use it to pray for God's help with respect to the victory of the mother country.
- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:15:48
  Hi Andres,hope you and your computer are well.
  
  What about remembering the sacred in our everyday rituals and giving thanks-doesn't prayer have a part to play in that?
  - - sarangijibt
    - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 21:32:47
    I don't do that, giving thanks each day. Rather to say: never.
    Because: would you give thanks also at a day when everything goes wrong or maybe even death and illness is your guest?
    
    Too often then people start asking: why me, God? That has nothing to do with giving thatnks.
    - - paulinemom
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:56:11
      But even on a bad day there is always something to be thankful for.
      
      P xx
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  - - paulinemom
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:05:37
    That was what I was trying to say
    P xx
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- - paulinemom
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:19:46
  Oh Sarangijibt
  
  LONG TIME...
  
  Strange you choose to use Soldiers as an example. As is a thing close to my heart today.
  
  We do not wish our BLESSINGS to go out just infinite.... not just to family and friends....but to those who lay their lives on the line for us.
  
  P xx
  - - sarangijibt
    - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 21:19:19
    I know it's hard.
    As a peace loving person I wish war could always be avoided. But also as a peace loving person I must keep misled foreign soldiers from destroying my peace. The world is so difficult because not all wish only to live in peace but also to dominate others.
    It brings tears to my eyes that a blessing (by a preacher to soldiers)sometimes must be given to harm others. 'cause how shall you defend without also agreeing to the ultimate means of defese: death to others (or yourself...).
    Really abhorring I find a blessing for a war of agression!
    - - paulinemom
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:57:18
      That is very true and I feel that all the soldiers not matter from where would rather they were not killing and were finding someway of making peace.
      
      P xx
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- SeasideMan ^Pro
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:42:01
The ACLU supported some US marines who were being forced into prayer services against their will. I agree with their action: no-one should be forced to be in a service if they don't want to be.

It's also important to remember that in America there is a constitutional separation between church and state.
- - paulinemom
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 15:54:36
  Yes Tom....
  
  Was something I was discussing (out of blog) with STMSS.. No one should be forced into entering prayer services...we were discussing school days and how the issue was addressed then...much better than today.
  
  Perhaps this blog should be renamed and readdressed...but NO.....I will if possible...if people answer address this... as we are each given to our own belief and should be able to observe it.
  
  P xx
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- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 17:38:30
  Whatever happened to the idea of military discipline and obeying orders? (however,ridiculous they may appear to others)
  - - SeasideMan ^Pro
    - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 17:59:21
    So you think it's preferable to cause bad feeling and resentment by forcing them to listen to a prayer service rather than giving them something else, perhaps more instructive and personally useful, to do?
    - - paulinemom
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:18:41
      Tom I agree with you....STMSS....I feel sure that perhaps you have miss worded your comment.
      
      I would be Bu**gered if I would follow an order to attend a service I totally disaproved of.
      
      To follow orders in the field when under attack or attacking is one thing, but to be ORDERED to attend a religious service is something quite again... Faith is a personal thing.
      
      P
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    - - stmss
      - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:14:55
      A well oiled military machine depends on unity;the individual becomes part of a unified whole.
      
      Discipline,ritual,activities reinforce this culture.
      
      If a soldier objects to the "pointless" nature of prayers what will be next? "No, I don't want to go on parade any more because it violates my personal beliefs and is a waste of my individual time."
      - paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:23:32
        
        NO!!!!!
        
        Sorry.....I think you are WRONG!!!
        
        Your concept makes no sense given your 'HOPE'
        
        I feel sure that No Demonination would REFUSE a service that was directed at wellbeing, each and every faith prays.
        
        It is not disciplin and culture, just respect for each other.
        
        P xx
        
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        stmss
        
        http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:42:55
        
        In a blog (as in life)I will sometimes make an assertion or an inference to further the discussion.
        
        I may not even personally believe it but it is a form of Socratic reasoning/questioning that helps tease out contributions.
        
        I never label anyone else as "right" or "wrong"-for we all have our own set of individual truths and personalising it in this way attacks the person and not their comment.
        
        Now, I know nothing about the prayer life of the American military, but isn't it something that these soldiers will go to court about getting out of saying prayers rather than,for example,killing people?
        
        Yes, it is a crazy world in which we live, and I contribute to that craziness in whatever way I can
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:53:06
        
        I am not sure....but I do undertand where you are coming from.
        
        Many e-mails are received regarding prayers for our Soldiers, be they American or English.....
        
        But I wonder.....they come from 'supporters?' of the causes rather than from the SOLDIERS THEMSELVES.
        
        P xx
        
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        stmss
        
        http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:04:41
        
        You may well be right there.
        
        These poor men and women of the military who have to go into battle/live in war torn zones have more important things to think of than whether someone says a few words before lunch!
        
        Many blessings on them all
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:10:09
        
        But....I feel that if they knew we were praying for their safe return they would gives thanks.
        P x
        
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      - SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:23:43
        
        I see no slippery slope here, just the issue of enforced Christian worship. Imagine if it was enforced Islam or Hindu worship. Would you still be OK with that?
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:37:36
        
        Errrr....what were they called 'Concientious Objectors'
        
        1) Some were pacifists who were against war in general.
        
        2) Some were political objectors who did not consider the government of Germany to be their enemy
        
        3) Some were religious objectors who believed that war and fighting was against their religion. Groups in this section were the Quakers and Jehovah Witnesses.
        
        4) A combination of any of the above groups.
        
        In 1916 the Military Service Act was introduced - this was soon nicknamed the "Batchelor's Bill" as to start with conscription only included unmarried men between 18 and 41. But it was widened in May 1916 to include married men as well. By April 1918, it had been expanded to include men up to 51.
        
        However, the act also included a 'conscience clause' which allowed people the right to refuse to join up if it went against their beliefs. Those who claimed to be conscientious objectors had to face a tribunal to argue their case as to why they should not be called up to join the army. However, even this clause was not enough for some who wanted the act withdrawn in full. The No-Conscription Fellowship was founded as early as 1914 and it produced the following leaflet :
        
        Repeal the Act
        
        Fellow citizens:
        
        Conscription is now law in this country of free traditions. Our hard-won liberties have been violated. Conscription means the desecration of principles that we have long held dear; it involves the subordination of civil liberties to military dictation; it imperils the freedom of individual conscience and establishes in our midst that militarism which menaces all social graces and divides the peoples of all nations.
        
        We re-affirm our determined resistance to all that is established by the Act.
        
        We cannot assist in warfare. War, which to us is wrong. War, which the peoples do not seek, will only be made impossible when men, who so believe, remain steadfast to their convictions. Conscience, it is true, has been recognised in the Act, but it has been placed at the mercy of tribunals. We are prepared to answer for our faith before any tribunal, but we cannot accept any exemption that would compel those who hate war to kill by proxy or set them to tasks which would help in the furtherance of war.
        
        We strongly condemn the monstrous assumption by Parliament that a man is deemed to be bound by an oath that he has never taken and forced under an authority he will never acknowledge to perform acts which outrage his deepest convictions.
        
        It is true that the present act applies only to a small section of the community, but a great tradition has been sacrificed. Already there is a clamour for an extension of the act. Admit the principle, and who can stay the march of militarism?
        
        Repeal the Act. That is your only safeguard.
        
        If this be not done, militarism will fasten its iron grip upon our national life and institutions. There will be imposed upon us the very system which statesmen affirm that they set out to overthrow.
        
        What shall it profit the nation if it shall win the war and lose its own soul?
        
        Comments please........
        
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- jollyweez
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 16:12:44
Overall, I go along with 'freedom' in America. That is what it stands for.
However, this same country was based on Christianity, and the belief in God as depicted in the Bible.
I have discovered that Europe and the UK have also rescinded prayers, including the 'Lord's Prayer' as well as the Ten Commandments.
On the other hand, American Muslims demand that the Koran be respected, and that they are allowed to leave their desks, when it is time for them to face Mecca, five times a day.
These people are adamant about their worship, and belief in Allah. They are in all of our 'Christian' countries now. There are Mosques everywhere. Our young girls are marrying into Muslim families and wearing the veil.
I give us only another forty years, and then all of our European, UK, and American countries, will have been converted to Mohammedism.
We don't care about Christianity at the moment, however something has to take it's place.
I would daresay that the religion of Mohammed will be a law, not too far into the future.
Unless, we, en-masse, revert to Christianity, and hold it strongly for our children's children.
I have studied most of the main religions all over this world, and I must say that Christianity is the best. It is not a cruel religion and it does give us a choice, a leeway. We can say we are Christians, but we are never forced to attend church.

Our culture was based on Christianity, whether any of us like it or not. Our laws and behaviour is also based on the Ten Commandments, whether we like it or not.
I suggest we all start thinking hard, and realizing that if we leave a space, and there is no refuge for those who need to pray to something, then Islamic Law will take it's place.
Our culture as we knew it will be history.
Our world will be forever changed.
- - paulinemom
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 16:34:46
  YES....
  
  Years back when the USA was formed as a Nation all thanks was given to GOD.
  
  You will shortly be celebrating Thanksgiving....and how do you actually think about that?
  
  I will write tomorrow on this subject..for much has been forgotten over the years on this celebration.
  
  Your other comments...on Muslems and Islamic Law I will also address tomorrow.
  
  Brain is going round on responding to an old post (before the computer packed up)..WHO IS GOD.
  
  Sorry...I am perhaps stupid, but I do not feel so.
  
  I post a question and replies must be responded to...my posts have an age of being replied to these last couple weeks.
  
  I am holding this reply to top of my list for tomorrow.
  
  P xx
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- - ChurchwithoutWalls
  - http://churchwithoutwalls.blog.co.uk
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 16:47:12
  i think that you have covered some vital issues jollyweez the act of prayer can unite us or untie us.it can give a strcuture and beauty to our day.
  - - paulinemom
    - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 17:07:03
    Yes she has and I have much to comment on tomorrow as tired now with answering some 100 posts that have been outstanding for a week or so.
    
    I know this is my own blog...but as always...there is always SOMEONE...or SOMETHING that comes through that deserves recognition...and this is one post that deserves a lot of comment.
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  - - paulinemom
    - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:30:55
    Just a note....
    
    Even my daughter does not know the LORD'S PRAYER!!!
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- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 17:44:57
  I was intrigued by what you said about space JW. It seems that in our rush to protect freedoms we have neglected to leave a space for others to respect and accept the beauty that is prayer (of whatever prevailing denomination).
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- - safriz
  - http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
  - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 14:55:19
  Good to know that you are concerned about vanishing christianity.If christians would like to leave their desks for their religious practice,nobody should have a problem,as its their right,same about muslims,jews or anybody else.However i must point out that its not as easy as it sounds.I have been doing simillar things,leaving work for prayers,and i had to sacrifice my break timings for that reason.Lunch time was consumed in afternoon prayers,and tea break was for evening prayer instead of a warm cup of tea and chitchat.Later my employer offered me special breaks during my work timings for prayers,which i happily accepted,after asking them to deduce those hours from my salary,as i did not want to be payed for the time consumed in prayers.Also it was not fair for my colleagues who were working while i was praying.But i kept my work up to date,and did not lag behind,and every body was happy.I didnt have to miss my prayers for work,the employer did not have to pay me for the time consumed in prayers,and my work was not in anyway effected by my prayers.
  - - paulinemom
    - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:23:28
    Sounds like you have a very understanding employer and you must be appreciated or he/she would not have given you this leeway.
    
    P xx
    - - safriz
      - http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:34:14
      yes pauline,they were very nice people,but at the same time i did not try to impose my religious practice on them by asking them to let me pray while others work and get paid for it.I spent my break timings on prayers,and when they saw that i am serious about my religious practices,they offered the leeway,but i asked them to deduce that time from my wages.Otherwise my colleagues would have felt that i am being treated exceptionally,and that would have created problems for me.
      - paulinemom
        
        Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:43:56
        
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  - - jollyweez
    - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 17:15:49
    I was imagining a quiet, secluded place within the office bulding, where you could pray on your special mat.
    I don't think it takes more than a few minutes.
    It is sad that there is no such place there, that you can go to worship and pray.
    I take it you have to walk to the Mosque to do this? Several times a day? I do hope not.
    Christians are used to praying under their breath, as well as cursing(!)
    On the other hand, many Roman Catholics will attend an early Mass before work.
    Many a time, I, (Anglican) would simply slip into a church, sit at the back and contemplate. Filled with peace, I could leave to face the rest of the day.
    Evensong in those churches was heavenly. You would just sit there and listen to the little boys chant.
    All this has come to an end, the churches are all locked-up. Some even abandoned and trashed.
    It is an indication that our Nation has lost it's core values. The children have no refuge when they become overwhelmed by the hurry and noise of each day. They have not been taught to pray to a special Guide or Master.
    Some of our people must really feel empty now.
    - - paulinemom
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 17:27:43
      Yes....I remember when we could walk into a church at any time of day....now not possible....
      
      P xx
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  - - jollyweez
    - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 17:18:29
    Dear safriz:
    I forgot to press Reply to comment.
    My reply to your comment is a few comments
    further on from my original comment. I hope you can find it: JW xx
    - - paulinemom
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 17:26:34
      I have done that myself...lol
      
      P xx
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    - - safriz
      - http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:00:09
      Yes jolly,i found the comment and read it.Well said,thanks
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- jackiblogg
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 19:41:02
I think that this is right about being aware of 'leaving a gap in the market! If we let everyone [ie the voting maj.] as in the case of those who have large religious communities have hols and time off to worship yet downgrade our small churches [with even smaller congregations] We are bound to get to the point that these larger communities will be the ones with political power too! Who is speaking for those with different yet not widespread beliefs? Perhaps it should be law that Religion should only be practised in private? I dont know I just think this ostentagious display we get of various religions is unseemly.
- - paulinemom
  - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:11:15
  Jackie,
  
  That is yet a different perspective.
  
  But why should people be ashamed of the religious feelings? and do you not think that if religion were practised only in private it would lead to persectution?
  
  P xx
  - - jackiblogg
    - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 17:19:30
    I did not say anyone should be ashamed of religious feeling but I dont think sex should be prastised in public either! I was trying to point out that ones beliefs and feelings ARE private. Witness those who have been persecuted within their own faith for holding different views from the established mores! I like many others practise my own rituals by myself, my own beliefs are not for the market place but the way I choose to live, I havent been perscuted yet! Perhaps that is because Im not telling everyone my beliefs are right so theirs are wrong! And I would include in your own church or temple or mosque as being private.
    - - paulinemom
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:28:10
      Sorry Jacki
      
      Perhaps I was a little harsh....but if you have read all these comments as I have you either try to make a point or LISTEN.
      
      I am a sole practioner of my faith as well...I do not condemn a faith because it is not my own....I have 'fors' and 'against' on SOME FAITHS....but would nevery decry.
      
      Example....Jehova Witness and their long standing NO BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS.
      
      I disagree with their removing the possible extention of life to another, BUT....has it not also been proven, even scientifically.....blood transfusions can cause problems.
      
      P xx
      - jackiblogg
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 09:47:27
        
        Oh yes blood transfusions! I think this is an example of a good thing coming from negativity. Partly because of this 'ruling' in some religions scientists have started to make artifical blood and have invented ways to 'get round' this 'rule' so that those suffering loss of blood may survive. How those who held those views must have patted themselves on the back! The Mormons too have a great library of ancesters which will be very useful for research into disease and history and movement of populations and this library was made so that the faithfull of that religeon could convert their ancesters posthumourously! Sorry to stray from the subject but dont you think that it is interesting and in a way shows 'the hand of God'?
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Wednesday, 04. Nov, 2009 @ 15:44:04
        
        No worry about straying I do it all the time.
        
        Mormons....I respect their way of life with regard to family. I spent a few years with them...not my way but I respect them.
        
        Their ancestrial library is second to non in this Universed...byt would you wish to baptise an ancestor out of their own belief?
        
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- safriz
- http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 19:58:47
Combined prayers in Army institutions can be annoying at times.Specially when people are from different faiths or no faith.In army you HAVE to follow the routine,and their is no choice.If the law suit is to give people a chice,then i have to agree with that.If it is to abolish prayer all together and ban it,then i am against it.The easy way would be to keep the prayer before dinner as it is,and let the Army men make a choice if they want to enter the dining hall at the time of prayer or after the prayer has been said.Those who dont want to participate in prayer may enter the dining hall after say 5 minutes,and that way they wont participate.
- - paulinemom
  - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:02:30
  But surely, no matter what faith they should give thanks for the food on the table?
  
  P xx
  - - safriz
    - http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
    - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:56:42
    I agree on that.But different faiths have their own way of thanking their diety for food on the table.
    By why thank some one invisible? Food comes after a long chain of events.The clouds water the eatrh.The earth harbours seeds.The ability of seeds to germinate.The ability of the germinated seeds to grow roots downwards,and the seedling upwards.The ability of the plants to absorb moisture.The ability of the sun to nourish plants,and the ability of plants to get nourishment from the sun.Then our ability to process raw plant and animal material into food,and the ability of fire to cook our food.Then our internal systems.Our digestive systems.None of the above is fully under our control.Some of the above mentioned systems can be partially controlled by humans,but for example we dont have any control on the sun or the clouds.So yes there is a lot to be thankful about,even in the simple everyday practice of food intake.
    But my point was that different faith have different ways to be thankful,and should be allowed to do it in their own way.
    - - paulinemom
      - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 17:34:12
      Safriz....Not many would have illuminated on this. So why not give thanks.
      
      Yes each of us should be permitted to do so in our own way....BUT.....IF COLLECTIVELY JOINED TOGETHER.... surely we can give thanks together.
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- Miza-T
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 20:38:10
When I left my little, insignificant country I had too much to complain about it.

But I changed my view, when I realised my little country respects the freedoom of each individual.

I have never had to pray in school.
We had religious studies as extra time in school for whoever wanted it. I did attend it a few times as and when I wanted.

I don't agree with imposing anything to anyone, may it be prayers or whatever else.

Freedoom of choice is precious and it's a right we should all enjoy.

xx
- - paulinemom
  - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 16:01:25
  I understand where you are comming from...today in schools religious studies are multicultural and cover ALL RELIGION to give an understanding
  
  P xx
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- spiritbird ^Pro
- Wednesday, 28. Oct, 2009 @ 20:40:56
Isn't it funny how people see prayers. If something goes wrong they ask "where was God" if they want something the ask God for help. Even the aetheist just before the plane crashes will hold up his hands and say "God help us".
Prayers are private things. They are between you and whoever or whatever helps you through the day. Religion is the root cause of all the Earths unrest.

Whenever in the course of the daily hunt the red hunter comes upon a scene that is strikingly beautiful or sublime - a black thundercloud with the rainbows glowing arch above the mountain, a white waterfall in the heart of a green gorge; a vast prairie tinged with the blood red of a sunset - he pauses for an instant in the attitude of worship.
Ohiyesa Santee Sioux

Forget the prayers, adopt he attitude.

Blessings SpiritBird
- - paulinemom
  - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:59:32
  Yes....
  had a very good Lakota Sioux friend in Colorado and he always said
  
  "Walk with your head high and observe the World" I always have.
  
  P xx
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- janetweightreed
- http://www.janetweightreed10.blog.co.uk
- Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 08:41:11
I have a prayer that I often use like a mantra. It goes like this. 'I ask that fear and doubt be removed, and that It be replaced with strength and courage' I always give a prayer of gratitude at the end of each day.

Given that I don't belong to any formal religion - I send my prayers to the great source, or energy that I choose to call God. This God is not male or female or anthing else that we can recognise in human terms....this God is above all.
- - paulinemom
  - Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 15:48:43
  Janet that is a lovely prayer and it is nice to hear from people that have no formal religion as it puts different perspective on things.
  P xx
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- amerishire
- Thursday, 29. Oct, 2009 @ 19:52:01
As an American I can agree with some of those who posted. I never was taught I had to pray to any diety, while I was at school, though at home it was another matter.
As a parent I have chosen to not impose my spirituality upon my child and have let her choose for herself. At the age of six she chose to be baptised because she was being bullied at her faith school (one she went to because it promised a greater sense of community) for not being baptised. A year later she asked to be un-baptised because she decided she didn't believe in Jesus and now is saying she doesn't believe in God either. All of which I am fine with, because it is her own journey. My mother is upset however, because she believes very deeply in Christianity. As someone who works in schools I can say that assemblies do happen in the UK. Religious education is still taught during them and not just in faith schools either. I love the idea of RE, however, I do not think that the heavier emphasis on Christianity is necessary. Britain is not the Christian country that it once was.

Today the Supreme Court in London were looking at a case about faith schools. They were being asked to consider if parents of pupils who want to attend faith schools need to 'prove' their faith before their children are admitted. How does one 'prove' their faith?
- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 08:42:19
  I'm glad you mentioned faith schools, thank you
  
  I was listening to a Radio Four programme on Jewish schools this week and this issue was discussed at length.
  
  I was intrigued to hear about the Jewish school in Liverpool that is run by a Catholic Head and attended by all faiths and none. Apparently, the Jewish community is dwindling there.
  - - paulinemom
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 14:57:49
    amerishire
    
    That is a very valid comment and one that would take me ages and ages to answer properly.
    
    I have NEVER HEARD OF BEING 'UNBAPTISED' Can this be done?
    
    My own daughter and her fiancee want wee one to go to a Catholic School.. Perry went to one....Becci is not 'fussed' but after a discussion with me (I am Wicca) I did say "Faith schools offer a more 'structured' education if you can get over the 'faith' bit....."
    
    P xx
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- sallyontour ^Pro
- Saturday, 14. Nov, 2009 @ 17:32:06
I removed myself from assembly at the age of 10 (I told the teachers I was a Buddhist although I didn't really know what Buddhism was all about!) as just didn't want to participate. I now believe children should be taught about all faiths (including pagan ones) and left to make their own minds up.

Prayer is a personal thing, no matter which God or Goddess or higher force it is directed to. It has, I understand, been proven that those being prayed for in hospital make a better recovery than those who don't, regardless of whether or not they knew they were being prayed for. Personally I don't, although I do use other rituals. But each to their own, just don't inflict your believes on others
- - paulinemom
  - Saturday, 14. Nov, 2009 @ 21:15:06
  We have gone over this topic before...schools and prayer.
  
  Children ARE taught about ALL FAITHS to the best of my knowledge
  
  I follow the Pagan ways...my daughter does 'partially'
  
  But...I must admit.....I have not seen Pagan worship contributed to or discussed
  
  P xx
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