Who wrote the Bible?

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Who wrote the Bible?

by Miza-T @ Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 – 07:54:54

Yes, I know, Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon, Ezekiel, Daniel, Malachi, Luke, Paul, John, etc...

My question is who decided to compile and edit this book that changed peoples life forever.

Who had this brilliant idea?

Because I can tell you, this was a brilliant idea, I mean, how many copies of the bible have been sold so far?

There are no specific statistics but the estimate is more than 6 billion.

How can a book be so powerful that people swear to it?

Why is that people don't even question what's written?

Is it the word of God of just a piece of literature?

Okay, I know, sorry guys, too many questions is just that I am very sceptical and I don't believe everything I read.

Don't get me wrong, I am probably one of the few people who actually has read the Bible...just thought it was a good question for this group.
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91 Comments to Who wrote the Bible?

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- SeasideMan ^Pro
- Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 08:59:37
The decisions of what to put in and what to leave out of the bible (or bibles: there are many versions) took place over many hundreds of years. The first Canon was probably the one decided at the Synod of Hippo in AD 393 at the behest of Augustine, and the full Roman Catholic Canon wasn't agreed until the Council of Trent from 1545. It was a load of men from different countries and at different times who decided what to include and what to discard.

People do question what is written. The bible is demonstrably inaccurate in various places where it deals with historical events described elsewhere, and is self-contradictory where there are multiple accounts of the same events. As for why believers don't question it: that's because their belief comes first. Muslims would say the same of The Koran.

Tom.
- - Miza-T
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 11:18:18
  Yes, after all this years people are still trying to decod the messages and giving it different interpretations.
  But Christians in general are in agreement as to the Bible's basic message.
  
  Wonder if I was poet who lived 2000 years ago and a friend of one of those men, if I had my writing published forever.
  
  Thanks Tom
  - - paulinemom
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:59:50
    Different interpretations are coming all the time....we shall never know the true meaning...but it has given a code of life.
    
    P xx
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- - shakyshergill
  - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 12:05:53
  Hi,
  
  Don't think I've posted on this thread before.
  
  Who wrote the bible or I suppose more importantly who decided what should be in it is IMO a very interesting question and one that has influenced much of the history of Europe and the West, not to mention the fact that it has spawned a lot of literature of which books such as the Da Vinci code, 13th Apostle are the tip of the iceberg.
  
  There have been many significant council through the history of the Catholic. I think one of the most influential ones regarding what went into the Bible was the Council of Nicaea in AD325 might be a good place to start if you are interested.
  
  Love andblessings,
  Sh
  - - SeasideMan ^Pro
    - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 12:23:28
    Thanks, the council of Nicea was the 1st ecumenical council, I think. The 1st Canon wasn't completed until the Synod of Hippo in AD 393 according to my, admittedly limited, knowledge!
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  - - stmss
    - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
    - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 12:44:39
    Good to hear from you Sh -look forward to many more informative comments and posts from you.
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  - - Miza-T
    - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 16:08:11
    Thank you very much for your interesting comment.
    
    Love and blessings
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- brokendownangel ^Pro
- Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 09:20:59
I can't help thinking it is a novel, well written but a work of fiction loosely based on some real life events that was found and for some reason read as fact! A bit like if everyone on earth died out and aliens landed in a few thousand years and found a pristine copy of the Harry Potter books - would they really believe this is how we had lived? why not?
- - Miza-T
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 10:46:45
  Interesting thinking.
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- - paulinemom
  - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:00:44
  Lol....
  
  My last post indicated that GOD WAS AN ALIEN....but people shyed from picking up on that.
  
  P xx
  - - brokendownangel ^Pro
    - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 09:52:35
    Tis because it is outside accepted norms that is all, but I think you have to think outside the box with things we know nothing about x
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- DominicGee
- Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 09:45:49
- The Bible was never written as an intended best seller, since books in their recognizable form did not exist until the early middle ages. The original Old Testament was written on scrolls that were far too valuable to be owned by everyone. It was left to Rabbis to lead their interpretation through discussion - the Synagogue as oppossed to the Temple is where this took place. Also, the Bible is a big seller but far more a GIVEN away (i.e the Gideon Bible).

- The Old Testament as we know it was written under instruction from the Ptolemaic King of Egypt in the 3rd Century BC. It was then that it was translated from Hebrew into the more universal Greek. This work was commissioned so that the great library at Alexandria would have a copy. As for the original Hebrew texts, their history is not certain when this was written, but likely during the Persian period (5th - 4th Cent BC) when the Jewish people were in exile and the importance of writing down their oral traditions became necessary.

- In general, people do not swear on the book, but what it contains. Each Bible is just a book, pages and ink. It is the words within, the ideas that are important. And in that case, the Bible is no different from many other ideologies in the passion that it stirs within people. People swear by it in court because in the Western world, the Bible is a portable representation of everything that the civilisation represents. All the laws at some point originated from the commandments within.

- People DO question what is within. That is why if you go into any religious book shop you will find hundreds of texts all about interpreting the Bible and how to interpret it yourself. It also explains why there are so many Protestant sects - precisely because its meaning was questioned.
As for questioning its authority - this is a choice by those who make it. Clearly there are millions of people in the world who do not accept the authority of the Bible and those that do. There are people crossing over to the other side all the time.
- - Miza-T
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 21:22:12
  First point, you are absolutely right! I didn't mean to make it look comercial, but to comment on its powerfull effect on people.
  Althought I did pay for my bible.
  
  I know all the history involved in the process of writing it, but I don't know who decided to put it ALL together and when.
  
  Yes, all different interpretations but religiously following what's written.
  
  And maybe I come from a little part of the world but everybody I know would eventually say something like: -It's true, it's in the bible!
  
  Thanks for your comment, made me think.
  - - paulinemom
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:03:08
    Miza,
    
    You have another question to ask yourself.....WHICH BIBLE...which of the religions...WHICH ONE bares any semblance to original source....we shall never know.
    
    P xx
    - - Miza-T
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 17:54:18
      I agree with you pauline. I must admit I don't know much about other religious. Growing up in a estrictly catholic country and then moving to another catholic country all the other religious are a bit "foreign" to me.
      
      We had a "new" strong religion "invading" our country and that was the jehovah's witnesses and some members of the family joined them but I just couldn't accept it for the fact that they wouldn't give blood to safe anyones life because it was against their religion and to me that is just wrong.
      
      I've learned a lot along the way.
      
      xx
      - paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 18:05:41
        
        Miza
        
        I agree with your concept of not accepting the Jehoval way...but are they total wrong?
        
        I have spent many hours, many years 'investigating' other religions and faiths. No, nothing detracts me from my own faith...but UNDERTANDING is what is needed.
        
        Hope Child does as a UNIQUE GROUP give people to debate on faith
        
        P xx
        
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        Miza-T
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 18:15:25
        
        Yes, Pauline it's wrong to me. (not to them)
        I trully believe we shall live our life to the best and if I need blood to live, give me blood!
        
        I had a cousin.
        He had a motorbike accident.
        He died in hospital because his parents refused to accept a blood transfusion.
        He was 19.
        I will never forget that.
        It was not his choice.
        
        I respect anyones believes, I do. But that doesn't mean I agree with them.
        
        This is a great Blog, I love being a part of it.
        
        xx
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 18:50:31
        
        Miza....
        
        It is only recently I have seen you on here, and I welcome your comments....
        
        I post much and am decried sometimes...but that is what debate is about.
        
        The thing I have learnt about Jehov.Wit...about their blood thing....and I now do wonder.....
        
        Ok I am young....61 years young.....and I have a RH neg blood group. When I was expecting my son some 40 years back I had complications with his blood not comarable to mine.....had to have a blood transfusion.
        
        I had my daughter...her blood group is same as mine RH neg....so no problems.
        
        Yes, even those 40+ YEARS BACK they gave injections...Anti D or something... BUT....it had come to attention that blood was NOT COMPATABLE.
        
        It was ONLY LAST YEAR I found out..
        
        People with Rh Neg blood group can donate and give blood to ANYONE....but NO ONE OTHER THAN Rh can give to them.
        
        So where did this bit come from to enter into their faith?
        
        P xx
        
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        Miza-T
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 20:04:24
        
        Thank you pauline, I agree with you 100%.
        Sharing opinions and learning with each other it's what makes us grow us human beings.
        
        We are in the same boat! I'm also RH negative. But O RH negative.
        I had to have that injection at the end of each of my preagnacies.
        
        I say it this way because I lost 2 babies; and have two daughters. So that was 4 times.
        
        Luckily they were born with their dads blood type and didn't need a blood transfusion.
        
        God blessed me with the most precious gift anyone could aim for in this life. And if they needed a blood transfusion to stay alive, I'm sure it would have been Gods will for them to have it.
        
        This is what they believe in and I am positive it is a man made rule, not God's will:
        
        "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible prohibits ingesting blood, and that this includes the storage and transfusion of blood, including in cases of medical emergency. This belief was introduced in 1945, and has been elaborated upon since then. Blood is sacred to God..."
        
        xx
        
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        paulinemom
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 05:29:32
        
        Yes, I had the same with my son....but Becci was born with RH O Neg (same as me)....History seems to repeat itself with us girls in our family....Paige was born with her Dad's group so Boo had to have the anti D injections.
        
        With regard to the J.H attitude....I can understand it in a way but totally disagree.
        
        P xx
        
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- Miza-T
- Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 11:01:59
First point, you are absolutely right! I didn't mean to make it look comercial, but to comment on its powerfull effect on people.
Althought I did pay for my bible.

I know all the history involved in the process of writing it, but I don't know who decided to put it ALL together and when.

Yes, all different interpretations but religiously following what's written.

And maybe I come from a little part of the world but everybody I know would eventually say something like: -It's true, it's in the bible!

Thanks for your comment, made me think.
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- avenscent
- Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 12:52:12
It is amazing that it is still the most sold book in the world.

It was put together by the followers of the time i suppose, it was supposed to never have any word in it changed but it was changed slightly to make it easier to understand, when we get the, The Good News bible.

Words were changed but if you compare them to the King james version they mean the same thing.

I have compared a few different bibles and there might be a slight variation in words but they mean the same.

0f course people can interprete things in there own way but the bible only comes alive to a believer and with it comes an insight to its meaning.
- - subville
  - http://subville.blog.co.uk/
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 13:09:29
  I absolutely agree with that last sentence, Avenscent. x
  - - Miza-T
    - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 22:02:24
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  - - avenscent
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 12:16:22
    Thank you Subville it is some thing some will never understand.xx
    - - subville
      - http://subville.blog.co.uk/
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 12:20:16
      It IS difficult to explain, and hard for others to believe that God gives 'insight' in the way He does. x
      - avenscent
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 12:58:21
        
        You are so right, it is frustrating,there are no words to convince doubters.
        
        They have to find god themselves in there own way and they do want to find god or they wouldnt keep knocking god, they would stop wanting proof of his existance, and stop knocking believers at every opportunity.
        
        God will never give them proof because that is not gods way, humility is gods way some thing they know nothing of and will never succumb too.x
        
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  - - paulinemom
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:03:47
    I agree as well.
    
    P xx
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 13:30:26
  The changes have been small since it was made Canonical certainly. It's what went on before then that is more problematic. It went pretty much like this:
  
  You take some folklore stories from a couple of hundred years ago that have been passed by word of mouth about someone who may have never existed (cf. King Arthur) but was a conflation of multiple tales. You remove the stories you don't like the sound of. You copy the old history without checking it and put multiple, contradictory versions in. You then make up some things that didn't happen and throw away a few more that did but that sound a bit iffy. Next, you hype up the language to make it sound better. Let this stew for a hundred years or so, and then have a big meeting to decide which bits of it should stay in. Then another one. And another one. Repeat for 1000 years. Finally, translate into a different language and lose much of the sense (e.g. "Thou shalt not murder" becomes "thou shalt not kill").
  
  And finally, I note that you that insight comes through belief. That's what all the major religions say and it's a circular argument.
  - - safriz
    - http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
    - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 15:13:09
    Thats an interesting analysis. Go on Tom write a Bible and lets see how it goes .
    Actually there are a few verses in the Quraan which challenges literature writers and and poets to try and write a simillar book.
    As you mentioned in your first comment,i dont question the Quraan.But still i would like someone to come up with a religious book that big,and covering so many topics.
    About bible,i can only say that "if ther s fire,there is smoke".An al out hoax cannot be created,there has to be some truth somewhere.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 15:38:09
      That's what L Ron Hubbard did. He mentioned at a sci-fi convention in the 1940s that the best way to make money wasn't by writing but by inventing a religion. A few years later he invented Scientology and look how well that worked!
      
      I think Scientology is the proof that an all-out hoax can work.
      - safriz
        
        http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
        
        Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 16:12:01
        
        I dont know much about scientology,except that Tom cruise is a a beleiver of that faith.
        I read a bit on wikipedia,and it says that scientology is based on the ancient beleif of Reincarnation and that souls lived somewhere else on some other planet before coming to earth.That way its not a completely new idea and is a "Mix and match".
        Its same as someone saying that Yoga or Reiki is a religion,and then writing a few guidelines and registering as a church.
        Many such imitation religions exist,but do they have a book as detailed as the Quraan and also Bible? I dont think so.
        But right you are in saying that inventing a religion or cult is a quick way to fame and wealth.Many have done this,and succesfully so,but can that be taken as a conclusive evidence that all established religions are Hoax? Its same as claiming that since fake Rolex watches are available,there cant be an original Rolex watch
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 16:29:17
        
        I think there is probably as much detail in the Scientology books as in the Bible or Quraan, possibly even more.
        
        The fact that religions can be invented doesn't prove anything about existing religions, but it does at the least demonstrate that man-made religions are possible. I think that all the major religions are man-made, but I know you don't agree...and that's fine :-)
        
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        safriz
        
        http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
        
        Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 17:15:00
        
        I havent read much about scientology.J. Z. Knight's Ramtha school of enlightenment is simillar,and has made loads of money through book publication and documentaries.One of their rescent block buster was "what the bleep do we know".Their documentaries i have watched,and books i have read.Interesting and enlightening,but falls short of giving someone a set of rules to lead their life.Does go into details about souls and universe,but none of their book or Documentaries are concise enough to include a bit of everything.
        Yes i dont agree on religions being Hoax(I am a bit hard nosed )
        
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  - - avenscent
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 12:14:09
    Be careful Tom that chair you sit on might not really be there.
    
    You have to believe in some thing and whats to say that what you believe everybody else thinks is rubbish and might laugh at you.
    
    There is proof in the pudding is the saying and you have said so yourself, just because it doesnt work for you doesnt mean it doesnt work.
    
    Anything you might believe in will have its flaws too,anything you listen to that anybody might tell you whoever they are will have its flaws, where is the guarantee of all the truth in what you believe.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 15:15:36
      My description of how the bible came to be written is pretty accurate. If people still choose to believe it's contents whilst knowing this, that's up to them (a belief is confidence in the truth of something that has not been proven).
      
      "You have to believe in some thing"
      
      That is incorrect, as explained in some depth here:
      
      http://nobeliefs.com/beliefs.htm
      - safriz
        
        http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:40:54
        
        Interesting link,i ahve bookmarked it for later reference.From the look of it,very intellectual and logical explaination of both beleif and nobeleif.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:42:33
        
        It's done in a very scholarly manner and makes a most interesting read.
        
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      - avenscent
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 18:56:04
        
        You would not sit on a chair if you didnt believe it was there. You are beliving anything any one tells you. And of course you are entitled to your opinion just dont try to force it on me because you never will.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 20:55:14
        
        I'm no more enforcing my opinion than you are yours, we're just having a nice little discussion about each other's different opinions.
        
        You are mistaken about belief. Did you have a read of the page I linked to at all?
        
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        avenscent
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 12:05:48
        
        Personally i think you are trying to enforce what you think you know on people who have a right to make up there own mind.
        
        I think you insult those who do believe by trying to change there minds as if you think that your words or somebody elses will change there opinion.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 13:09:47
        
        "Personally i think you are trying to enforce what you think you know on people who have a right to make up there own mind"
        
        It's unusual to see an internet discussion as enforcing something. If you carefully scan what I have said in this discussion you will see me expressing my opinion, nothing more. You however are frustrated that you can't convince others. You said this above:
        
        "it is frustrating,there are no words to convince doubters"
        
        Pauline asked a question and each of us has answered it in our own way.
        
        "I think you insult those who do believe by trying to change there minds as if you think that your words or somebody elses will change there opinion"
        
        If you are going to make claims of insults, you need to back that up. So, please quote anything I have said that insults you on this thread. While you search, bear in mind your own words "it is frustrating,there are no words to convince doubters".
        
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        avenscent
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 13:13:54
        
        I dont try to enforce anything on anybody Tom. If your happy with what you believe that suits me fine.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 13:19:34
        
        You claim I have insulted you. I want you to please point out where.
        
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        avenscent
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 13:37:15
        
        By trying to change what i believe as you well know.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 13:43:28
        
        Why do you think I have tried to change what you believe?
        
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        avenscent
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 14:28:50
        
        You have worn the argument out Tom. Whatever you believe is different to what i believe and i have nothing more to say on the subject.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 14:34:57
        
        I see, so you just wrongly accuse people of being insulting and then refuse to talk about it any more. That's nice.
        
        I hope the rest of your day goes well.
        
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        avenscent
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 14:51:21
        
        I rightly accused you,you insult my belief and any one elses,you denige god, even try to proove there isnt one.
        
        And your boring because you never know when to quit.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 15:24:15
        
        No-one here has insulted your beliefs, all we've been doing is talking about how the bible came to be written, and I have given a reasonable historical perspective on it. Perhaps that historical perspective challenges your belief, but it in no way insults it. If your belief is "insulted" by a little accurate history, then perhaps you might want to have a think about why that is.
        
        You have moved into dishonesty by saying that I might "try to proove there isnt one" [god]. Tut tut. It's impossible to prove a negative of that sort and I would never try. It remains possible that there is a god, however unlikely.
        
        I shall say nothing further here now. Good day.
        
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        avenscent
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 17:26:24
        
        I am honist and what i said is true this is a subject you repeat over again Tom and you change nothing here. Goodbye
        
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        stmss
        
        http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 16:43:12
        
        I am sorry that people think that others are saying or doing things to deliberately offend each other. It isn't the case -it is just very easy in this imperfect medium for us to misunderstand each other.
        
        I know how much time and effort both of you put into the blog community and admire the way you support and nurture others (including myself).
        
        I am sure we can put this behind us. If anyone wants to send me a private message then please do so.
        
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        SeasideMan ^Pro
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 17:59:16
        
        All is well with me :-)
        
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        stmss
        
        http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
        
        Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 19:36:05
        
        I am pleased Tom and thank you for letting us know
        
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  - - paulinemom
    - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:08:17
    That is very aptly put....
    
    A good example is as follows....
    
    Mark 8:22-25
    
    And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
    
    or.....
    
    John 8:59 - 9:1-6
    
    Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. ... When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:35:51
      Interesting, thanks.
      - paulinemom
        
        Saturday, 31. Oct, 2009 @ 16:40:44
        
        Yes and you should have added....
        
        Go ye back and make sure you did not multiply the facts
        
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- Old-Nick ^Pro
- Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 18:41:50
The "new testament" was written by a committee in Rome, who decided what to put in out of the massed writings by "christian" churches around who all had amazingly different ideas about what "Christ" did, said and actually meant.

As Rome had all the Armies and power, what was decided there was what won the day. All other interpretations of "Christs" teachings and life were branded heresy and Rome tried to destroy all other writings.

In the Old testament, God is more like a pagan God - not afraid to punish his followers for slacking: "All woe comes from me" - or smiting the enemies of his people by sending the Angel of Death to kill the firstborn.

The New Testament, written by committee for a religious group who were still slaves at that time, is full of "Turn the other cheek", "The meek shall inherit the Earth" and "You will get your reward in Heaven" - in other words "Shut the F*ck up and the Romans will not go back to chucking us to the lions and we may get out of this century alive"

Blimey. That was nearly a serious comment from ME!

Of course as anyone can see - I know nothing and am very badly informed. Please ignore me. No offence meant to any Christians either.

Just my badly informed opinion.
- - Miza-T
  - Friday, 30. Oct, 2009 @ 21:21:31
  You were doing so well! I was very impressed until you f**k up.
  
  Actually I tthink you are quite right and your answer is clear and conclusive. And I like it.
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- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 17:00:46
  Your comments are very insightful as well as colourful-you weren't in Nicaea around 394AD by any chance were you?
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- juliepenkova ^Pro
- http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
- Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 16:26:25
Hi Miza
I must say that The Bible always stirs up emotions
I feel to read it is one thing and to feel spiritually
inspired by it is another totally different senario!!
The Bible is one of many spiritual insights
One has to question it and it's history and one also
has to look deeply into what actually is belief
and Toms Link is excellent.
When one's core belief is being questioned... that in itself is not comfortable and matters can become
very uneasy and upsetting!!
To me the Bible is supposedly influenced by the Holy
Spirit... but though history has many flaws and hidden
knowledge lost... which is found within gnostic teachings and the lost techings of Jesus... known
as the secret teachings of Jesus!!
Whether one believes in God or not...
The matter of actual "belief" and the "history" of the Bible are two matters that must be anayalized if one really wants to at least try to understand the true meaning of our existence, not just to know "Who am I" but "Why am I"....
For me the Bible does not truly explain this...yes
it gives a description... of which can be hugely debated on and still there is no clear and accurate explanation.
This Topic is very personal to my heart...
as I came away from Christianity and to do so
has been very hard... as it was the core of my being...
but one has to understand life can not be based on human logic alone....
before Christianity there was Buddisim and other great
spiritual wisdom...it is not down to one book!!
it is a universal phenomena!!
- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 16:51:13
  Thank you Julie for your perceptive comments that are backed by your own extensive research.
  
  As you say there are many books and sources that predate Christianity. It is such a shame that some Christian denominations have done their best to suppress the gaining of knowledge by claiming that there is only one universal truth.x
  - - juliepenkova ^Pro
    - http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
    - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 17:14:21
    I do know that to questions ones belief's can be very
    upsetting and heart renching!!
    My research is to anayalise and to question and at least
    try to understand... in order to do so one must look
    at as many insights and the Bible to me is one insight
    amongst many!!
    Yes universal truth is too vast to know an ultimate answer!!
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- deleted user (Visitor)
- http://www.timwade.wordpress.com
- Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 19:44:41
I love the Bible, both as a literary text and as an authoritative religious text.

I am surprised at the number of people, however, who miss the meaning of the Bible. It has one subject, that being the relationship between God and man. Yes, it covers topics such as sex, money, a little history, a little psychology, but only with regard to how those subject affect the God/Man relationship.

From the perspective of the God/Man relationship the Bible makes an amazing claim: GOD IS! God is all knowing, all seeing, and ever-present. His is eternal therefore having no beginning and no end. In order for a book like the Bible to make such claims it must also go one step further with regard to its authorship - No man is qualified to write authoritatively about God.

If we as human beings believe in God and fear Him then our understanding of Him from the Bible has to include the belief that anything written about Him comes through the guided pen of the Holy Spirit. Yes, mere men wrote the words contained in the Bible, but the Bible itself makes the claim that that they did so under the inspiration of God. Precisely how this happened is anyone's guess and the one who tells you he knows is but a fool.

When I was in college we discussed the criteria for the canonization of the Bible. One criterion was its ability to do that which it claimed. Hebrews 4:12 tells us that the Bible is alive and sharper than a double-edged sword, piecing between the bone and the marrow. As a Christian for more than 30 years I have witnessed the power of the Bible thousands of times and have come to believe beyond doubt that it does what it claims No other book makes such a claim and backs it up with tangible evidence.

Truly the Bible is a living document authored by God and capable of discerning the thoughts and intentions of human beings. Truly it is an authoritative document. I challenge anyone to take it at face value and follow its teaching in view of making Jesus Christ Lord of your life. Unless you are afraid of your life being changed forever you have nothing to lose.
- - juliepenkova ^Pro
  - http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
  - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 21:58:23
  Interesting but not heart felt!!
  Have you researched intently into other forms of belief
  as passionaltely as the Bible...
  Do you ever acknowledge how others feel in regards to
  their deep beliefs that are not connected to Christianity!!
  I feel one has to be careful when expressing what is fact
  and what is faith...
  because what is fact.... to you is not to another!!
  - - deleted user (Visitor)
    - http://www.timwade.wordpress.com
    - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 22:55:32
    Julie, I have a degree in religions and am well versed on most of the major ones. I have studied religion from many perspectives and keep coming back to Christianity as the one true religion.
    
    My reason for coming back to Christianity and making it the center of my faith is quite simple: Of all the religions out there, Christianity is the only one that recognizes my sinfulness, provides me with a standard for living, and then acknowledges my need for help to live in that way. All the other religions out there impose standards on the individual who lives his or her life completely unsure of what happens to them when they die.
    
    The Bible tell me of a Savior in whom I can trust who wants to live with me for eternity. Recognizing my inability to live up to his standards he paid the price for my sin. By paying this price he insures me of eternal life with him when I die . Of course in exchange for the this life I must give him my life and live for him. This I gladly do of my own free will and choosing.
    - - juliepenkova ^Pro
      - http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
      - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 23:23:53
      Tim you can not make such hurrendous claims that are not fact... you insult other faiths and beliefs when doing so!!
      I left Christianity for the reasons you claim you returned to it!!
      First of all what facts are there to claim we are sinners in the first place... do you realise what delusion you bring yourself under by thinking you are a sinner in the first place.... there is no freedom in that alone!!
      and we have spoken on that before!!
      Why do you need help from sin.... sin does not exist
      in other forms of belief that show much more universal freedom!!
      Other religions do not impose.... they are beautiful
      and freedom is there key... and it is that of which you are afraid because you see it as not genuine...
      that is your perception...
      All other religions do not impose standards on the individual but Christianity does...
      I could make a list... but choose not to, as not to offend other christians here!!
      Where is your back up to state they do not know where they go when they die.... this statement is definitely
      not fact and proves you have no insight to others beliefs at all!!
      Or maybe from a christian view!!
      again you preach and it is all been said before
      and your facts are oppinionated!!
      Believe in that which fills your heat with contentment
      but remember others have the same contentment and do
      believe in after life... from all walks of life
      and from all cultures.... they are as passionate as you
      but respect with an open mind the universe or multiverse
      is beyond our wildest dreams!!
      Be careful what you express Tim, this group is for
      all types of belief and non belief.
      An open mind is freedom!!
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    - - Miza-T
      - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 23:38:59
      Universal Declaration of Human Rights
      
      Article 18
      Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
      
      Article 19
      Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
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- - Miza-T
  - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 22:17:56
  Thanks for sharing your opinion.
  I don't agree with it, it is not what I asked, but thanks anyway.
  - - deleted user (Visitor)
    - http://www.timwade.wordpress.com
    - Sunday, 01. Nov, 2009 @ 22:45:07
    Miza, I beg to differ with you. You asked the following questions to which I provided an answer.
    
    How can a book be so powerful that people swear to it?
    
    Why is that people don't even question what's written?
    
    Is it the word of God of just a piece of literature?
    
    I am sorry that you do not like my answer.
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- - SeasideMan ^Pro
  - Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 00:32:02
  You are a smart man: I know you understand when I say that believing first is a circular argument. You believe, therefore the bible is true. If you do not believe, it is merely words, possibly (probably) false words.
  
  You can claim that the bible is "a living document authored by God" but that is an unproven claim, and even more than that, it is an outrageous claim requiring outrageous proof. I support your right to believe whatever you choose, but when belief strays into claims of truth then it needs to be asked the hard questions. So, where is your evidence that the bible is "a living document authored by God"?
  
  I think you have no evidence. Please prove me wrong, if you can.
  - - deleted user (Visitor)
    - http://www.timwade.wordpress.com
    - Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 01:31:34
    Obviously there is no evidence that the Bible is a living document. Faith based spirituality is experiential and personal and can not be proven.But I look at the world around me and consider the claims of the Bible, and find myself unable to draw any conclusion other than the belief that the Bible is alive. Having said that let me add one more thought.
    
    As a Christian I believe that unless God speaks to the individual through the Bible, that is unless God chooses to reveal Himself, the Bible is nothing more than pen and ink on paper. Jesus said, "He that has ear, let him (or her) hear.: In my thirty three years as a Christian I have seen a lot of people talking, but very few people listening. I sometimes marvel that with so much noise being projected in the name of religion that anyone is able to hear God.
    - - stmss
      - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
      - Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 07:50:23
      I think you may have hit on something when you say that it is God that chooses to have a relationship with a person.
      
      I think you may have hit on something because that is why God chooses to have such abundance and diversity of belief.
      
      God would not,therefore,only choose to reveal him or her or itself through one religion.
      
      Christianity may just be one form of God's expression. Atheism another. Paganism another. For without that rich diversity we are not able to learn and grow together and accept each other.
      
      No one wants to be told they are wrong for following their own truth.
      
      Christianity is your truth and I am glad for you but the part of Christianity that says that you must convert everyone else to it may be fundamentally flawed.
      - Miza-T
        
        Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 09:03:36
        
        Well said stmss.
        
        xx
        
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      - juliepenkova ^Pro
        
        http://juliepenkova.blog.co.uk
        
        Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 09:37:35
        
        stmss that is the key answer... "we all belong"
        and we are "always learning" and were harmony comes into
        play.
        
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      - deleted user (Visitor)
        
        http://www.timwade.wordpress.com
        
        Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 12:05:19
        
        Three things I will confess. 1) I believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no one comes to the Father but by Him;. 2) The Bible does not call upon Christians to convert people but to share God's love with them so that in His time He can draw them to His Son, Jesus; 3) Everyone must work out his or her own faith with fear and trembling.
        
        Folks can call me rigid if they must. I do not even pretend to have some of the answers, much less all of them.
        
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        stmss
        
        http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
        
        Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 12:15:27
        
        I don't call you, or indeed anyone else, rigid Tim and know that you have deep compassion and love in your heart for all.
        
        When you share God's love then, by your own reasoning, it is up to God to follow through.
        
        It may be that God prefers people to remain as they were so we all experience the respect and joy of belonging to the universal world of acceptance.
        
        I know that you speak from humility and are always open to us here.
        
        How is your social enterprise going?
        
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    - - SeasideMan ^Pro
      - Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 08:40:12
      That's a very well balanced and admirable position you have there.
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- enklings
- http://www.enklings.com
- Monday, 02. Nov, 2009 @ 18:19:37
"How To Read The Bible" by James Kugel - former Professor of Hebrew at Harvard is a good book that gives a broad overview of the Old Testament in context. A must read for anyone really considering how the Bible was written.
- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 12:33:16
  Hi, lovely to finally see you here and thank you for that very good recommendation-it is appreciated
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- - Miza-T
  - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 16:09:34
  Thank you
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- poemsbylennygazbowski
- http://www.beyondknowledgeseminars.com/index.html
- Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 21:28:10
God is too big for one religion !!! The most important book to be read is the one inside you ! The New Testaments were written some years after the alleged death and resurrection of Jesus, and was based on hearsay. Throughout the centuries the Bible has been edited to suit those in power, using fear - sin, and heaven and hell. To my mind religion is a mind control tool.
- - Miza-T
  - Tuesday, 03. Nov, 2009 @ 21:54:18
  Okay
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- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Wednesday, 04. Nov, 2009 @ 10:02:40
  Welcome to Hope Child
  
  There are many that agree with you -have a look at our latest post and see what you think.
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- gillyk
- Thursday, 05. Nov, 2009 @ 10:18:57
hi everyone, I've been following this thread with all the different viewpoints - a real cross-current!

It seems to me that the basic question is to do with the nature of truth. People have talked about 'truth' a lot in this thread, but there is no fundamental agreement about what 'truth' is.

Is truth objective or subjective? It seems that a lot of people in the west believe it is subjective, and some of these postings actually say that truth is what means something to the individual concerned, something put together through thinking, experience, instinct and belief. This makes truth subjective.

If truth is subjective then it is private, and not public. It means that my belief is as good as anyone else's. This is also what this thread seems to me to be saying.

However, if truth is subjective it means that it is not objective and therefore nobody can point at anything and say 'we should all agree on that because it is true'. We've sawn off the branch we are sitting on, by believing that your truth is as good as mine.

If there is no objective truth and therefore no 'meta-narrative', nothing that everyone agrees is right or wrong, then we have a society where everyone goes their own way and anything can happen. We can't make rules for behaviour because each person believes something different, and we don't necessarily agree on what is good and bad.

I find I can't subscribe to this concept!
- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Thursday, 05. Nov, 2009 @ 16:10:08
  I think you should do a post on this so we can feature it and get a good response for you-it needs to be in the form of a question and you have to wait for a slot before it's featured
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- - Miza-T
  - Thursday, 05. Nov, 2009 @ 20:42:18
  It is a good point you are making and I agree with you.
  True as almost everything in this life is subjective.
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- gillyk
- Thursday, 05. Nov, 2009 @ 17:38:23
OK. Start off with the question, which is the old Pontius Pilate one - What is truth?

The rest of the post can stay the same.
- - stmss
  - http://hopechild1.blog.co.uk
  - Friday, 06. Nov, 2009 @ 08:03:17
  Well, have a go at it please.
  
  When you go to your my blog.uk page you will see the hopechild1 group and you click on the pen logo to write it (or copy and past it in your case). When you save it it will come to me and I will post it when we have a suitable slot.
  
  One thing you need to do to ensure that the person you're writing to gets your comment is to click onto the Reply to comment box.Above the box will then read: 'Leave a reply to the above comment'.
  
  This starts the thread of conversation and usually goes to their email address so that they know you have responded.
  - - gillyk
    - Friday, 06. Nov, 2009 @ 14:05:34
    thanks. I've followed your instructions. By the way, your link http://www.blog.co.uk/hopecchild1 keeps coming up as 'not found'.
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  - - gillyk
    - Friday, 06. Nov, 2009 @ 17:16:30
    have done so. Thanks.
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